Avatar Suggestions, Modular Avatars Options

[Hexine]

Okay, now I'm not sure what is possible here, but here are my ideas.

Exposition: Years ago I asked \\`arlock if he thought there would be different avatars for male and female characters, like there were portraits for different genders. He said it would be impossible because they'd have to edit the entire player file, or whatever.  Well since then they've added new species etc, so obviously some change is possible.

Well, as my use of furcadia has progressed, so have my ideals for the future of furc's avatars!

Again, I ask, is it possible to make differentiated avatars for male/female/undefined(current)...?

Added to this, what if the avatars were actually in pieces ->
 What if, when created a character, the first screen was actually building the avatar..? Choosing a male/female/undefined frame..  Choosing a type of vest, a type of cape, a type of leggings/shorts/skirt.. even a type of hairstyle (ponytail vs. short vs. "bald" etc)
      The pluses for this? Even more creativity with avatars, different looks. For role players a way to alter their furre's appearance day to day or whatever for a more realistic effect.  Also, it allows for more realistic markings on the furres. For instance, some furres enjoy the "loin cloth" look on their avatars, but the legs never have the markings that the arms do so its not quite realistic looking (as realistic as furc gets).
The second screen would of course be color selection, continuing on as the normal furc creation set up.

In my mind I can already see this would make a need for a LOT of player files, at the very least, 3 times what we have now...  But from the original furc, we've already got more than that.
For some species, I don't imagine that a separate male/female avatar would be needed (I.E., dragons/phoenixs which are not mammals so they wouldn't need breasts, which would be the main difference between the two genders)

ANYWAY, yes I spammed a lot - thoughts? comments? etc? please respond.

[Dia Sapphire]

Heres what you have to remember:  With Furcadia's CURRENT Graphics Engine, each body needs 20 new avatar frames.

Lets do the math to find out how many frames are needed for the original 5:  20 frames per avatar, 100 non winged..

Lets add the 3 wings.  100 PER wings, 300 + 100 = 400 frames.  Bunnies, 20, and 3 wings, 40,60,80...  100 more.  Total of 500 right now.

Lets say just add the Male / Femme / Unspecified.  Each sex is 100 frames total, making it 300.  Now add the 3 wings:  that 300 more EACH sex, making it 300 + 900, which is 1,200.

NOW lets add Lapine..  thats another 20 for just one, 60 for all three.  60 * 3 = 180 + 60 = 240.  A total of 1,440 Frames.

1,440 frames compared to 500.  That IS basically triple the frames..  A bit more downloading to do..

Next, lets add say 2 different vests and trousers each..  thats 4 different patters.  4 * 1440 =      2,760 frames total..  thats both a lot of work to get done AND a bit more downloading to do..  Maybe if Fel and the rest update the Graphic Engine (And i've heard rumors...) this could be possible.. but as of right now,  thats a LOT of work.  Good Idea though

~Dia

[Hollyberry]

It's not so much that it's a technical impossibility - it could be done, but it would increase the download size considerably, because you're effectively doubling the number of avatars required. While it is true that the size has more than doubled over the last few years, this is mostly due to pay-avatars. Personally, I think that rather than implementing a lapine avatar, it would have been better to provide two genders, if we look at the lapine graphics, there are winged lapines, triwinged lapines and butterfly winged lapines, so replacing those with gender-specific avatars would have been a better idea, in my humble opinion.

But then, no doubt, those with pay avatars would be the first to receive these male/female avatars and whatever you do when deciding which species receives these avatars first, there are always going to be some players upset because their choice of species wasn't selected.

I would imagine that implementing different clothing would require considerable additional coding. Also, it would require that in addition to the standard colour codes, what would (presumably) be referred to as clothing codes would have to be sent, which would no doubt consume more bandwidth.

[Hexine]

well, no, after actually putting the furre together, you'd use normal color coding as is.

see as I imagine it, the first page would be devoted to making an avatar which would appear in the standard, non-color mapped form (Pink hair, gray fur, etc) The next page would be JUST like the color choice page now except that in the little boxes where it shows a pic of your avatar by the portrait, the avatar would be as YOU created it.  For coloring there would be no normal coding.

In my mind, all of the species would have gender choices. I only pointed out the dragons and phoenixes because they don't "anatomically" require the changes between male and female.

As a note - the portraits wouldn't need to change from what they currently are.  A person can find a patch that matches the portraits they'd like, and people can buy personalized portraits.



And another thing - i wonder about implementing credit type incentives for playing furc.  Like... "Play five years, get 25% off a dragon" kinda thing.

just a thought.

[Valkaria]

If I remember correctly, the whole idea of not having gender specific avatars was to avoid mass harassment and the like.  Or, something like that...

[Hollyberry]

well, no, after actually putting the furre together, you'd use normal color coding as is

What I was trying to get at was that there would be additional data on top of the colour code in order to tell the client what type of clothing it should display.

Assuming that each of the current eleven positions on a furre were customisable, that would almost double the data pertaining to the avatar that needs to be sent by the server.



This post has been edited by Hollyberry: Mar 16 2002, 02:52 AM

[duran the wanderer]

for colors and "race" you get the info transmitted the first time someone walks into view like i guess they do now...

then this is stored untill you get out of view and then discarded after a timeout...

now the type of clothing gets loaded the first time you come into view and change looks the same way a avatar change looks when moving and so on...

most of the data is transmitted when you move into view, the rest are just small bits telling the client to change to sitting and so on unless they are retransmitting all info every time and that is bad for bandwith!

the point is that the server gets you entire avatar setup when you connect and this is transmitted to everyone that you walk into view of, after that they only have to transmitt that you change from standing to sitting posision and so on and that isnt a big job as the client whoud interpet that to say that he needs to change the cloths as well as the avatar...

this is how i view how the system work but as i have no way of looking into the code of the system its only guesswork...

[Youlanda]

There is a way... to get around the graphical handicaps...

We now have... 3 diffrent types of wings and our regular avatars.

In essence, this could happen:
Wings file - Take all of the wings (I know the laying vary from species to species, but, the general walking is the same, wtih diffrent positions on each avatar's back) and put them in a separate file.
Wigns setting option - There would have to be a way to configure the wings location one ach avatar, perhaps a fbjish like thing.

Then, you take the current wings avatars, and create the sexed avatars.
Keep the default ones.
Add a male
Add a female (in pants.)
Perhaps add a young/kit/pup (kawaii kawaii) avatar.

It would also be optimal for future wingz additions, would also decrease size of updates.

I've always wanted male and female avatars. I already have male and female canines and felines.  

[Falzure Stormbringer]

just a comment ont he complaint of the downloads if the gender avatard were created...  that download would ONLY happen.. when you download and install furcadia.. then.. its in your default... and never has to be downloaded again.. because everyone has it.. so that issue of download doesent exsist.. unless your doing patches on the avatars.. which.. IMHO.. is the stupidest thing out there.. sure the patched avatars are cute... but sorry.. the cute thing is novelty and last 5 min.. i dont want to spend  gods knows how long.. to make a character.. then go into a dream to have it represented by a CABBIT....  and a great deal of others feel the same way.. its cute.. for a minute.. then it just gets annoying because they dont want thier  character represented by something that its not...  and whats worse... just transfering the basic 20 animnations of one specias.. not inclding the wings.. the basic 20 movements.. to alter that adds at least 230kb to the patch size... 5 species thats over a meg.. to alter an avatar.. and believe me.. at that point.. by the time ppl with dial ups FINALLY get in your.. cute dream.. they are too upset to care.

[Leticia]

Of course, Furc could solve all this by just releasing the same default avatars, but letting people specify both a default avatar and an extended avatar - you'd show up as the default avatar unless someone had the same extended patch as you - but this would require some way to identify the patches.  Best of both worlds.  You could distribute your patch to all your friends and they'd see you as you without it affecting the way they saw other people...

And no additional download time for the extra graphics unless you chose.

[Youlanda]

I do many avatar patches. I find it enjoyable to have different costumes for cultures or places. Kimonos for japanese dreams. Priest robes for a cathedral, etc.

[Saji]

If I remember correctly, the whole idea of not having gender specific avatars was to avoid mass harassment and the like.  Or, something like that...

ya, i believe that was mentioned as one of the major reasons why not, that inbetween avatars got rid of gender bias.

[Ayumi-Snowe]

I personally find the current non-gender specific avatars rather satisfactory, with customized appearances able to be related via personalized portrait spaces, a thing which I will take advantage of whenever I manage to convert a drawing properly. Keep in mind that the current avatars represent the species and their distinctions well enough, and simply have a general humanoid body type. When you start implementing male and female avatars, someone is going to have to decide and design them according to their visions of what men and women generally look like and what distinguishes them. If they are designed along the lines of generic fantasy-type art stereotypes, we will have brawny muscular males and slender, long-legged, large-breasted females. The result? Many people will be unhappy. If the designer tries to manage something more to their vision of 'realism', the seperate genders will be represented as something a bit removed from our unfortunate cultural ideals. The result? Many people will be unhappy. Think about it.

Do take note that this is coming from someone who knows next to nothing concerning implications on bandwidth and filesize, and not taking into consideration the amount of work involved, simply trying to present another facet of the issue.

[Youlanda]

How's this?

The females were built using some parts from the oldskool nudity patch. The males need some cleanup too, but, this is a prototype I started a looong time ago. I am going to fix it eventually.

To note, there is already a patch with steriotypical sex-symbol fantasy females.





This post has been edited by Youlanda: Mar 17 2002, 11:59 AM

[Hexine]

Ooh i like that Youlanda.

Anyway, other games have separate male/female avatars... They don't seem to have a problem with it. Do they?

[Leticia]

Having played EQ...

There is nothing I -hate- more than wearing lots of armour and still looking like some downtown hooker with all but the most salient bits of my body hanging out...

I stopped playing half because the human and elven races I enjoy playing the most, all the women are your long legged big chested sterotypes and they don't wear enough even when supposedly fully clothed.

I myself obviously am not a fantasy woman and I don't wish to be forced to present myself as an anorxeic bimbo, thanks.

I'd really be forced to reevaluate my playing of Furc if to be female (which I am and quite proud of) I had to be all... overtly a sexual object.

I like the current avatars.  *shrugs*

(But I wouldn't want to be undecided or whathaveyou either. :p)

Note this doesn't say that female/male specific avatars are impossible, just that I don't want to have to use them.  I don't care if they exist. :p

[Guest_Siclis_*]

Well... i was thinking about this... however the idea i have would mean a total re-design of the player graphics engine/style. It would require separating all the parts.. for example, you would have a head part, a hair part, a body part, legs, and all would have different customizability. Now, this would mean that if i were a Feline (i am) and i would change my hair it would automaticly know where to put it on the "Felines" body. This would all be variable depending on spieceis because of their hight.. and this wouldn't be so much more graphics because all the global ones are just that.. global. now the math for this would still be large but smaller then that of using a file for every type. However changing the avitar system is alot of work.. it might be good for a new release.

[Merle]

I think the whole "pick what you want" thing was considered at the very beginning.  The "portrait pieces" on Talzhemir's Treasure Trove (is that still where they are?) seem to be intended for that purpose, and the current portraits are made out of pieces of those.

...Sorry for the mostly irrelevant post.  Please return to your discussion!

[Youlanda]

Piece by piece avatars may be a future thing...

Male and Female avatars, I think, would be a kick! Male and female, could have wedding patches without messing with species, etc. Then again, I /adore/ costume design.

[ChipDip]

This may or may not have already been said, but these aren't humans, their animals, and with animas, they dn't have large breasts if they are female *for the most art* and aren't big and muscualr if they're male. In conclusion, wouldn't they look almost exactly the same, if not unmistakably similar? So they way I see it, is that they already are female and male, they just look the same.